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NFL Starting QB Bets & Ian Epstein Of PropSwap (Ep. 1039)

NFL-Starting-QB-Bets-Ian-Epstein-Of-PropSwap-Ep.-1039

NFL Starting QB Bets & Ian Epstein Of PropSwap

The guys (@GamblingPodcast) keep talking NFL season prop bets this time tackling the NFL Week One starting QB odds. Who will be the Chicago Bears QB? Andy Dalton or Justin Fields? Does Mac Jones have a chance to beat out Cam Newton? Is there any scenario where Taysom Hill is the week one starter for the Saints?

Then they’re joined by Ian Epstein (@PropSwap), co-founder of PropSwap to hear about the idea behind PropSwap and how they got their business off the ground. Plus Ian weighs in on the Chicago Bears QB situation and highlights some of the bigger wins in the NBA & NHL futures market.

Podcast Timecodes

0:01:25 – Intro/Welcome
0:03:44 – Week 1 Chicago Bears Starting QB Odds
0:07:59 – Week 1 New England Starting QB Odds
0:13:08 – Week 1 San Francisco Starting QB Odds
0:19:30 – Week 1 New Orleans Starting QB Odds
0:25:38 – Co-Founder of PropSwap Ian Epstein
0:25:58 – Origin Story of PropSwap
0:31:56 – Potential Partnership with Local Casinos
0:34:21 – Bidding Feature of PropSwap
0:38:02 – PropSwap One of a Kind Concept
0:39:26 – Cash Out v. PropSwap
0:40:55 – Ian’s Thoughts on Chicago Bears QB Justin Fields
0:42:38 – NHL Stanley Cup Finals PropSwap Tickets
0:44:54 – Popularity of Future Parlays on PropSwap
0:45:36 – NBA Finals PropSwap Tickets

NFL Week One Starting QB Odds

Odds
CHI Bears
Andy Dalton -500
Justin Fields 300
Nick Foles 2500
NE Patriots
Cam Newton -305
Mac Jones 300
Jarrett Stidham 2000
SF 49ers
Jimmy Garoppolo -280
Trey Lance 220
Josh Rosen 3300
Nate Sudfeld 4000
NO Saints
Jameis Winston -250
Taysom Hill 175
Ian Book 3300

Podcast Transcription

Speaker 0 (0s): This starting quarterback, prop bets, additional sports gambling podcast is presented by win bet. Get started today and you’ll get a risk free bet up to $500 terms and conditions apply. Get the details@wyandnbet.com and download the app today. Or I’ll submit to you. My prop swap America’s number one app to buy and sell sports bets. Use promo code sup on your first deposit and receive up to $500 in bonus cash. That’s prop swap.com promo code S G P. We’re also writing about underdog fantasy signup and underdog fantasy.com with promo code SGPs and receive a free $25 entry to use in best ball mania too, for a chance to win $1 million.

And of course, don’t forget to download the SGPs app in the app store or Google play store.

Welcome everyone to the sports gambling podcast. I’m Sean stacking that money green with my partner and pics ride real money Kramer, 70 crammed dog,

Speaker 2 (1m 36s): Happy Tuesday, Sean, happy Tuesday. It’s Tuesday, right? It is Tuesday where

Speaker 0 (1m 41s): We’ve been doing a little time shifting. We’ve been pre taping our top 10 fantasy football episodes. So they will be dropping next week while Ryan’s a floating down a river. So enjoy, enjoy cracking, open some cracking, open some cold ones, catching up on some tap, 10 fantasy football. And there’s just, there’s just so much to get to so much action. So much activity on the, on the national football league, including week one, starting quarterback props.

There’s a whole separate, you can bet on that. You can bet on it. Ryan. I don’t know shocking. I mean the advancements

Speaker 2 (2m 19s): In bedding inventory last five years, it’s just tears two. It brings tears to my eyes. You

Speaker 0 (2m 28s): Know, who’s number one in our tier first round first pick overall in bet. That’s right. When bet is the official sports book of the sports gambling podcasts and the sports gambling podcast network, all you got to do to become part of the wind family is just go to w Y N n.com WWI and, and bet.com. Head over there today and get your risk-free bet up to $500. They got it all generous from us. Odds and parlays all happened in right over win bet.com win big with win bet.

Again, the wind win-loss Vegas experience, the action of Las Vegas in the Palm of your hands. Get the app, do yourself a favor. All you got to do is head over to w Y N and bet.com and download the app today.

Speaker 2 (3m 20s): Thursday night football, 72 days away. Just, wow, just going to throw that out there.

Speaker 0 (3m 26s): Thursday night, Brian, it’s not Thursday night football. It’s opening night football for the national football league

Speaker 2 (3m 33s): Primary. You’re still I’m losing

Speaker 0 (3m 35s): It. You are, you’re losing it, but here what’s here. Are we starting with aye? Aye. Aye. Worked up a nice little sheet. Ryan. No reason to get away from this Chicago bears. There are some questions at the quarterback position. Andy Dalton is currently the odds on favorite minus 500 Justin Fields, plus 300 Nick, big Dick foals, a long shot at 25 to one Kramer. I I know and you know, not to spoil it, but in some of these fantasy football podcasts you had some years, you were kind of lower on than I was when it comes to Justin Fields.

You think he’s going to have trouble dethrone in Andy Dalton for that QB one position

Speaker 2 (4m 19s): Are you let’s talk about it. So let’s go. First of all, we were in Vegas at the beautiful circle, not that long ago. And we saw them on the screen. What did we see? Andy Dalton minus one 40. So what is this? And this number is taken from, you know, probably 1:00 PM today. Yup. The number of moving this much, what does it tell you? There’s a pretty high likelihood that someone inside the building with knowledge of the situation is saying that Andy Dalton barring some sort of catastrophic injury injury is going to be the day one starter.

And it’s

Speaker 0 (4m 55s): Not even, I, you know, some insider it’s literally Matt Nagy came out and said, Andy doll, we brought him here. He’s our guy. Yeah, there’ll be a time. Maybe he’s already like leaving the door open. I think overall he gets the quick poll. I think he is on a very, very short leash. Like, you know, I mean, you wouldn’t even call it a leash because it’s just such a tiny piece of rope that he’s hanging on to. And here’s,

Speaker 2 (5m 20s): I guess here’s what I’d say though. More so. I don’t believe in Justin Fields. I don’t believe that he’s going to be the day one starter a because psychologically like it makes sense to let him be the guy that comes in, be the savior. Don’t put the pressure on him from day one. It is Chicago. At the end of the day, they do kind of have a track record for shitty quarterbacks. That being said this, I think this scenario is maybe similar to the 49ers in that there is the ultimate like holy crap.

The other guy is so much better in training camp. We can’t like look at our players with a straight face, say we’re going to start doll those situations. I think the fact that we can get the other scenario time was the Niners, but the Justin Fields at three to one implies that there’s a 25% chance he’s going to get the starting job.

Speaker 0 (6m 11s): Yeah. I, as much as I’m high on fields for fantasy and I think he does start soon. I don’t think it’s, I think it’s like a 10% chance. So I guess my pick is Dalton minus 500. Obviously you shouldn’t bet that at minus 500 it’s horrible odds, but Nagy is leaned so hard into the fact that Andy Dalton is the day one starter. He’s going to be the starter. They’re going to make sure he’s the starter. There, there are other quarterback situations where the dog is much livelier in my, in my point of view,

Speaker 2 (6m 42s): I do think I’m not a field’s guy, but I can, I would very much consume the story that Justin Fields just look so much better than I ended out and then practice. Yeah.

Speaker 0 (6m 54s): So much like, but I still, that being said, I still think that doesn’t, to me it’s not a greater than 25% chance. And I think Nagy has dug his heels in. They said it originally. And then he reiterated it and him reiterating it is what moved it from minus 40 to one 40 to minus 500. So that’s not, I think you’re throwing away money at plus 300. Cause there’s, there’s better plus 300 or plus two twenties out there looking at these starting quarterback, prop bets.

Speaker 2 (7m 25s): I agree with that. I think everything you said is right. And I think that the difference between some of the other scenarios is that, like you said, Andy Don was brought in by this coaching staff for a reason. And I have to meet. Imagine that part of that reason is his ability to be on the field quickly and help develop this guy. So yeah, I guess I’m with you, but minus obviously you should have listened to me at minus one 40 Sean. Yeah. You, you can vouch for the, the advice I was given. You did throw that

Speaker 0 (7m 51s): Out there on fortunately, I don’t know if it made it to a podcast, but I’ll still, I’ll still give you a new England Patriots. Have a interesting quarterback situation. Cam Newton minus 3 0 5 Mack Jones plus 300. And Jared said, I’m rounding out the group at 20 to one. Now for me, the scary about this one is cam Newton and bill Belicheck clearly have a bond. It’s so weird. I don’t understand it. Maybe they both like cigars. Maybe bill Belichick is secretly a white wine guy.

He also, yeah, like

Speaker 2 (8m 25s): It’s probably scarfs scars.

Speaker 0 (8m 28s): They both have a love of silk scarves, whatever it is. He clearly, once cam knew and didn’t even the owner, they kind of want cam Newton to be the guy, whoever bill Bellacheck by all accounts. This is a legit quarterback competition. And if you look most importantly, you look at his contract cam Newton. It is a very free backup, friendly contract. Like you’re not going to feel stupid for putting cam Newton on the bench, especially with this contract. I think Mack Jones is going to be the starter soon on. And to me there’s enough juice enough heat on that pan.

That slowly simmering that I’m gonna, I’m gonna roll the dice here and take Mack Jones is the day one started at plus 300. This is just kind of some of the latest coming out of Patriots, beat writers and stuff. Quote, the 22 year old out of Alabama was fast tracked during the course of OTAs and mandatory mini camp on a number of occasions, getting more reps, then the incumbent cam Newton, and up until the final day of mini camp look better than cam. So I think the fact that he’s getting more reps and he’s looking pretty good.

You want to talk about losing the locker room? I know cam, and again, he has a connection with Belicheck. He has a connection with the locker room, I think. And he may not be the wow factor of a super athletic guy like Justin Fields or Trey Lance. But I think Mack Jones coming in here and he has the ability to command a room. I mean the quarterback of Alabama, you can puff your child. And I think he’s going to be the day one starter. So give me Mack Jones at three to one, I think it’s closer to like a 60, 40, maybe even a 50, 50,

Speaker 2 (10m 8s): This offense so badly has to declare what kind of offense they’re going to be. And I don’t think they’re the same offense if Mack Jones is the quarterback offense in my mind, if can’t no, I’m just saying like stylistically. So I don’t know how they go through training camp, not having decided this ahead of time. And so the, the counter I would say, cause I do think it’s interesting. Cause everything you read is positive towards Mack Jones, but this is also puff time. This is may, this is June. And like you said, bill Bellacheck and I think Josh McDaniels have designed and offense that cam Newton is going to run and it’s going to involve tight ends.

It’s going to involve running the ball and taking occasional shots. The guys on the outside, like Nelson Aguilar. So hunter Henry, I, I think that Mack Jones will be utilized at some point in the season maybe, but in a belt of bill Bellacheck is being the guy, the smart guy that he is the advantage of having a guy like cam Newton is just like run the tires off that like take advantage of his legs. Utilize two tight ends, like do something crazy.

Speaker 0 (11m 17s): Damien Harris look great. So you’re building a great

Speaker 2 (11m 19s): Case. And the last thing I’ll say is with Don being 500 to Justin Fields, 300 cam Newton only being minus 3 0 5, I would say actually feels like a discount because oh, okay. I think at the end of the day, bill Belicheck is going to do what bill Bella check check is going to do. And the fact that he still has cam Newton in the building, he’s saying positive things about cam Newton. It’s again, for the same reason, like you bring them the rookie and later it takes some pressure off of him.

Bill Bella, check’s not an idiot. And they would ha I do believe the you’re maybe you’re going to see packages for him because it’s a different office. And honestly, you know, it will becomes really interesting of Mac Jones does get into being the starter is Meyers number one, rot wide receiver going in like the fourth, 14th round a fantasy. So I can, I hear your argument and I, and I CA I, I agree with you that Mack Jones the better plus 300 bet. Yeah. But I still like the cam Newton side because it, it, you know, don’t overthink it, right?

The NBA, we say the same thing. Don’t overthink it, just follow the tea leaves. And in this case, it’s pointing to cam noon because the beat reporters, aren’t making the

Speaker 0 (12m 35s): Decision. And, and again, maybe they’re like me, they’re letting they watch cam Newton last year they realize cam Newton is not a NFL level quarterback. So they’re there, they’re wanting Mack Jones. They want to see Mac Jones. So maybe that’s leaking into the reporting. I still think at plus 300, I’m rolling the dice here. I just think it’s going to be closer to a true competition. And I like Mack Jones beaten him out again. I just think it’s closer to 50 50 where the Dalton thing I think is like 90 10 for Dalton moving over to the 49ers.

Nate subfield, former Philadelphia Eagle, 40 to one, Josh Rosen, the chosen 1 33 to one Trey. Lance of course. What a room plus two 20 Jimmy G minus two 80. Now, as far as what’s been set out there, Kyle Shanahan has said he has no problem. Starting train lands. I mean, why is this? Why is this still two 20? I mean, he didn’t just show off Trey lanes. He’s dying to show everyone, you know what we, we were right for trading up for Trey.

Lance. When the Eagles traded up for Carson Wentz was there. Did you really think that Sam Bradford was going to be the starter? You don’t take these quarterbacks. Number one, number two, number three overall and not start them day one. You can talk about Patrick moms and they sat him for a year, but that’s not a compare. Jimmy G is not Alex Smith. And he’s been looking he’s, Shannon’s been itching to get rid of Jimmy G for so long. I plus two 20. I think it should be like plus one 50.

Speaker 2 (14m 12s): And as we sit today in Southern California, you know who else is in Southern California? Working out Trey, Lance Deebo, Samuel Ahmanson knew that he, I, again, Carson wants his charity softball game. That was what the anyway, Carson Wentz to Trey lands. Don’t want the pressure gets you.

Speaker 0 (14m 31s): Yeah, that is, I mean, that is just Jay Carson Wentz, just context, ginger Judas. What are you giving advice to a number of top overall pick. Oh, don’t let the pressure get to you. The pressure got to you. What are you talking about the first time? The first time things got tough. You, I guess you didn’t let the pressure get to you just said, ah, fuck it. I’m out of here. I wanna, I wanna hit up the Bible group, but in Indy, like you just immediately bailed on the city, the franchise, the fans, and you’re giving advice. Oh, don’t let the pressure get to you. What have you ever stood up to pressure?

Like what world are you living in, where you stood up to pressure, you caved under pressure, your entire career, and the most pressure you felt was when you played shitty in 2020, and you were heading to foot out the door the entire season. So don’t give Trey Lance advice from one FCS to another don’t point again, I think, I think they’re going to be run heavy. They’re going to have some dynamic offense and kind of to your point with cam, I think they want that offense early and often. I just think he’s going to be the day one starter.

Speaker 2 (15m 33s): Okay. I mean, here’s

Speaker 0 (15m 35s): A, I’m just not land money to get down on Jimmy G as the starter.

Speaker 2 (15m 42s): I think I, I think Kyle Shanahan wants to start Trey Lance. Yeah. So then, I mean, I do, I would like to understand a little bit more about the timeline and like the, the trade up decision to the like, was it all a ruse? Did you realize weird? Did you really not know? Was the not knowing like a real disagreement, but between John a welcome mat, forehead Lynch and Kyle Shanahan,

Speaker 0 (16m 10s): How do you trade up that much draft capital for, can I tell you what? We don’t know the guy? I mean, that just shows if he truly traded up, not knowing he was going to draft, that just shows you how much he hates Jimmy G, that he’s willing to unload all these picks between two guys. He’s not even, didn’t even fall in love with one guy. It’s like, if you’re in a horrible relationship, you just want out, you don’t care who it is.

Speaker 2 (16m 34s): Well, I mean, it’s like the Gruden thing, right? You love them and hate them all. I mean, but I, I, here’s what we’ll be hearing later this season, if things aren’t going well for the 49ers, we’re going to start hearing about a rift between John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan. And it’s going to, we’re going to hear stories, how it dates back to the decision to trade up. And John Lynch and old school guy, he was, he wanted Mac Jones. He thought it was for Mac Jones, Kyle Shanahan tricked him. They ended up going with Trey, Lance.

I do. And that’s maybe

Speaker 0 (17m 7s): That really makes sense because there were legit reports about Mack Jones and there was enough heat coming out about Mack Jones that made me think that it was real. So I think there was, it must’ve been coming from Lynch’s camp if Shanahan truly was in on a entree lands from day one.

Speaker 2 (17m 25s): Well, and, and we, you know, there was, there was talk coming out of the building that there was no Mack Jones talk. It was only Trey. Lance talks to the Mac Jones story was confusing to begin with.

Speaker 0 (17m 35s): And I, I feel like we’re not talking about enough about the fact that the 49ers have traced sermon and Trey Lance in their backfield as that two trays, they need one more tray just so they can just, yeah, that’s pretty good. Or just trace trays. Like, do you need one more tray to balance it out? If there’s another tray in the NFL it’s tray, deuce tray,

Speaker 2 (17m 57s): That’s the formation tray.

Speaker 0 (17m 60s): So Kramer, are you with me on Trey lands? Plus two 20. Sounds like you’re still making a case for Jimmy G.

Speaker 2 (18m 5s): I like if I’m analyzing the coaches and trying to psychoanalyze, like, what are they like, speak to words to action. I believe that naggy starting Dalton. Yep. Because of the pressure valve situation. I believe that bill Bellacheck is starting cam Newton because of the pressure release it, it gives the, the starter. I think, again, these offenses are going to need to look different just like in new England. And I believe that Kyle Shanahan has been sitting alone in his office, twiddling his Dick and writing and drawing up plays with a hyper mobile two way athletic quarterback.

And he’s ready to roll out an offense that maybe it’s a little different. Maybe it’s something new. Maybe it’s just some, some good old fashion, Trey, Trey run pass option. But I there’s just too many versions of the story where once again, like it’s Jimmy G versus Trey Lance, my concern is Jimmy G is great when no defense is out there, Jimmy G look like he he’s good looking. And then he looks good in practice. He looks good throwing the ball. I, my concern with Trey, Lance is his accuracy and all that junk.

So, but yeah, I’m with you on the tray. Lance is the one there’s the dog I’m willing to shoot. Now you should take a shot on, sorry.

Speaker 0 (19m 28s): New Orleans saints. This one to me is, is one of the more obvious ones. And the fact that you can get Jamis Winston at minus two 50, let’s go taste some hill plus 1 75 Ian book. You trust her three to one. Yeah. I mean, is he really might be involved in some crooked stuff, but Jamie’s Swinston at minus two 50 to be the starting quarterback. How do they not? I mean, Jamie’s, I think even if Jamis looked really bad, they would still try them out. Quarterback is his first position. I mean, I get the tastes of the first pick in the draft and really where you could get screwed at this maybe is that taste, some hill runs the first play in the season under center, just to mess with the team mess with the defense.

I can see Sean Payton doing some tricky shit like that. That being said that was Winston minus two 50. First quarterback started all over that. I mean,

Speaker 2 (20m 20s): Ian book might not make the team that he, he was trashed college quarterback, Jamis, Winston.

Speaker 0 (20m 25s): I mean, I would take Nate Seinfeld at 40 to one over Ian book.

Speaker 2 (20m 29s): Jamie’s Winston was the number one pick because he was a big guy with a strong arm. Yeah. And Jamie Swinston had a, a year of years, the 30, 30, 30 year, we haven’t

Speaker 0 (20m 40s): Even seen full Jamis laser eye surgery. He couldn’t see, he had that great throw in the playoff game.

Speaker 2 (20m 46s): He all of his, so most of his, yeah, way downfield. Yes. He held onto the bow. There’s plenty of things he could improve, but he was still slinging the rock down the field. And honestly, like, as I do these best ball drafts and I sit towards the end and it’s like, how is no one taking Jamis Winston yet? This is still the saints. Like what if the saints, you know, God, they, they may, what have they been limited with by the fact that drew Brees can’t throw? So, yeah, I, this is odd that he is the shortest favorite on the board.

Yeah.

Speaker 0 (21m 17s): Jeremy at minus two 50. I’m just following the beat reporters. There’s no, you see him working out, Jason, he’s talking amazing. He’s got these like big guys and then just him getting he’s he’s the, like just the goat of unconventional workouts. Like no one, no one else is doing these workouts that James is doing. Just mark your calendar later or worse, watch the saints games.

Speaker 2 (21m 42s): Because if nothing else, he brings entertaining brand of football. You know, you don’t know what’s going to happen next you’re on the edge of your seat. And who knows, maybe his eyes were the problem. And like, I mean, if there’s a guy that’s coming off the board super down low for MVP, or like leading the passing yards or any of that shit, like, could you see Jamis Winston doing what he did in Tampa? Just without the, you know, maybe 20 less interceptions. Yeah. He could have a monster. He could throw over 5,000.

Speaker 0 (22m 10s): I mean, it’s, it’s crazy. He could have a monster year. That one thing I’m sure of is he’s going to be the day one starter. Yeah. Like the guys started at quarterback, a number of games, days, the mill, we saw him start a couple of games. He didn’t look. So it doesn’t look so good that you’re worried

Speaker 2 (22m 25s): About. Let’s play this game. Sure. All the guys we just listed out. Yeah. You got to pick one to start your team right now. Ooh. It’s Jamis Winston for me, the shortest favorite. That’s a,

Speaker 0 (22m 36s): That’s a great way to handicap starting

Speaker 2 (22m 39s): Over Jamis Winston on this list.

Speaker 0 (22m 42s): I mean, you know, not to litigate it too much, but if you’re talking about starting a team, the fact that Mack Jones and Trey, Lance are rookies and have massive potential one season, a hundred percent James Swinson, are you kidding me? Yeah. I mean, I, I mean, I like what the potential of fields. So especially from a fantasy point of view, but Jamie’s, Swinson’s done it and, and not done it at a high level, but like him just slightly upgrading with Sean Payton in the dome with their defense being decent.

Like, I mean, again, there’s, there’s certainly some, some X factors that could go horribly wrong for him. But at minus two 50 to start, it’s just, I mean, it is a, this is a lock of all

Speaker 2 (23m 26s): Locks. Ryan taste them Hiller cam Newton

Speaker 0 (23m 30s): Taste them hill. Cause I I’ve seen, I’ve seen Jason Hill move a team up and down the field. I mean, people act like I’m some cam Newton hater. I talked to ton of shit on cam Newton coming into the season. Did cam Newton prove me wrong in shape or form. Feel like he almost won that Seattle game. That was always his highlight. Jeez. You see how bad his throws were. They weren’t getting to the receiver. I saw everything happened

Speaker 2 (23m 58s): His arm along the way. I mean, he was getting shit

Speaker 0 (23m 60s): And I don’t know, I’m not a scientist. I don’t know everything about COVID. Maybe it impacts your throwing shoulder, but Hey look, Hey, he didn’t look good. Pre COVID. He looked horrible. He’s not good anymore. I just don’t see why he’d be excited about cam Newton at all. And maybe that’s maybe that’s Taney my analysis of this, a Mack Jones starting, but a plus 300 I’m I’m rolling the dice on Mac Jones.

Speaker 2 (24m 24s): Best of luck. Thank you, Brian.

Speaker 0 (24m 28s): We’re going to be joined by Ian Epstein, a props off. Talk a little futures, talk a little sports gambling value before we do that. Want to make sure we shout out underdog fantasy, man, we’ve we’re knee deep in fantasy talk, been doing a ton of best basketball dress. Got our top 10 fantasy football lists coming out the podcast series next week. Got you covered every position back to front forward, back, reverse cowgirl. All the positions covered and of course, underdog fantasy.com.

Use that promo code SGPs for a free shot at $1 million. That’s right. Sign up using that promo code. You get 25 bucks. You can use it to enter the best ball mania, two contests. It’s one of these giant pest ball drafts. You play out your best ball season and then you’re entered into a tournament. If you make the playoffs. And again, it’s a free shot to win a million dollars, never do another mock draft. Again, just had a word to underdog, fantasy.com and use the promo code S G P N.

Joining us on the line co-founder of prop swap Ian Epstein. And thanks for calling in. Thanks for having me on. Appreciate it. Yeah. You know, it’s great to have prop swap on. I know it’s been fun doing the real men at D Jens and then taking a look at all the props you guys got going on there for people who maybe haven’t heard of prop swap previously. Walk us through the story a little bit a co-founder. When did you come up with the idea? When did you guys

Speaker 3 (26m 0s): First get rolling?

Speaker 4 (26m 3s): Yeah. So for those that don’t know, prop swap is a secondary market for sports bets. So any bet you place at a, at a legal sports book of the U S you could post it for sale for a profit, for a loss. You know, it’s, it’s just a way to hedge your bet or, or, or get out of it if, if you don’t want anymore. You know, we see a lot of guys now who are investing basically now in, in some teams and players with, with the sole purpose of, of looking to sell. Later on, before we start a prop swap the ability to sell your bed did not exist.

And, and it’s still, we are the only company in the world where you can sell your bet to someone else.

Speaker 0 (26m 42s): And, you know, maybe not to get too deep into the legal stuff, but how did that, how did that work? Did you have to deal with a bunch of lawyers of like getting someone to write an opinion that says, Hey, they’re technically just trading this ticket. They’re not, you know, they’re not a Sportsbook, they’re just creating this exchange. Was that, what was that process like?

Speaker 4 (27m 3s): Yeah. We were probably a little naive when we first started out about what, what we actually needed were a little more jaded now and, and a little more educated. So, I mean, we have to rewind back to 2013. I was living in Las Vegas, working for a company called Cantor gaming, which at the time was the largest Sportsbook operator in the country. They ran the books at Venetian cosmos, palms, hard rock of other places. And I, I was a risk manager there. So I was working in the back room, taking the bets, moving the numbers.

So I was kind of the, you know, the sports betting guy. And then my buddy from college, Luke called me up. He was living in San Francisco, but he had come to Vegas during labor day and he made a bet on the saints to win the super bowl at 50 to one. And then fast forward a couple of weeks, they were like, what? Seven in a row. And now they’re on for 15 to one. And so he called me up because he knew I was, I was a sports betting guy and he’s like, Hey, I made this bet. You know, the odds have decreased. Obviously this thing is now worth more than when I made it.

Is there anywhere I could sell this thing? And I said, no, there’s not a, and actually I’ve kind of had that same idea. And he was like, well, you know, I made the bet, but if it wins, can I send it to you? Can you cash it for me? And I was like, yeah, I do that all the time. So then he’s a guy, well, these things are transferable then. And so we, at that point we were literally thought like, okay, we’ll just write a letter to the game and control board ourselves and say, Hey, we want to do this thing. Is this chill? And

Speaker 0 (28m 30s): I just imagine a letter that says, is this chill in the gaming controller check? Yes or no.

Speaker 4 (28m 38s): Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Check. Yes. Or, or check for maybe. And actually I was, I was actually surprised at like how we got a response. I thought, I thought maybe they would just like ignore us. But like, we got a actually really well thought out response from the game control board. Now it wasn’t a great response. They’re like, no, you know, we wouldn’t allow this. And here’s why, and then, you know, we actually like, literally I literally called like the chairman of the game control board at the time he like returned my call. And like we had, you know, it was, they were actually, I was surprised as to like how available they were.

But at the, of the day they were like, look, we, we, we don’t think this is a lot, but we didn’t agree with the reasons. Right? So like for example, they were like, this is messenger betting, right? Messenger betting is like, you know, if Sean calls me and says, Hey, Ian, can you make this bed for me? You know, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll pay you for it. That’s messenger buddy. That’s that’s against

Speaker 0 (29m 28s): It’s illegal, but texting is totally cool. Right. I would text you. I’m just kidding.

Speaker 4 (29m 34s): Pigeon carrier, I think, is that the preferred way? And, and, but, you know, on-prem swap it’s, these are completely anonymous transactions. And like, if, if you know, Sean wanted to have me best in her bed for him, we wouldn’t then go use prof swaps to complete that transaction. Like you, I would, you would just send me the money and I make the bed for him. So like, how is this? Third-party actually contribute to that. So we didn’t agree with their reasons. And so we were like, okay, and be kept kind of like, you know, like kind of hammering them, like, look like, you know, can we, can you check, you know, could we get a meeting?

Will you change your mind? And they were like, I’d love for guy. I called this woman multiple times and you know, she wasn’t on the board. She was just employee. And she was like, what don’t you get about? No, it’s never going to happen. The only way this could possibly happen is if you find a gaming lawyer who will represent, you would have to have a good relationship with the board. They’re like, okay, all right. I guess, I guess we got to go find the gaming lawyer. Then that was the next move. Right? That was next. We tried to find, we talked to a dozen different game lawyers in Nevada and they all told us, I wouldn’t even take your money.

There’s no way this has been like, there’s no way that he would ever lie. It’s like, I, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t even take your money. And then finally, the 13th lawyer we spoke to up in Reno, you know, had never met him in person. Just talk to him on the phone introduction from an introduction. And he was like, Nope, you guys have a case. These tickets are property, no different than a baseball card, a concert ticket. These, this is transferable property, you know, bare papers. What do you call it? And, and he went and represent us to the board. And, and the result of that meeting was that this was not sports betting to be buying and selling these tickets.

So that was 2015. And then we were off to the races.

Speaker 0 (31m 16s): Yeah, that’s a huge win. I mean, if you’ve ever dealt with, you know, we went through these, these processes of getting licensed to be a promoter of legal sports books in, in these states and shout out to all the great states and their great gaming commissions, but it was, it was a very intensive process. And I can only imagine where, you know, we’re just signing up to promote sports books online, but to basically pitch a new concept or a new way to approach gaming and even to get that approved is pretty crazy.

And looking at your model, have you guys been approached by casinos to either do this internally? Because if I was a casino and I saw something like props off, I’m like, why are we not doing this in house? It seems like a great opportunity for the casino itself. Where have you been at, with like partnering up with the casinos and have they, have they come at you for any sort of partnerships? Yeah, that’s,

Speaker 4 (32m 13s): That’s a good question. You know, definitely the, the run, the gamut in terms of how accepting the are, or how good of idea idea they think it is. You know, I, I would like to say that a hundred percent of casinos look at this and say, yeah, this will absolutely boost our handle. People are going to make more bets now that they know they can sell them. But you know, I’ll say Derek Stevens in Vegas has been a super, you know, on the, on the cutting edge. So he’s been, you know, we’ve done the partnerships with, we’re looking to do, it’s a partner, that’s a partnerships Jersey.

And, you know, I mean, as for spending grows, there’s, there’s more and more, you know, casinos and sports books coming online and, and they need a way to stand out, right? Like all these sports books kind of offer the same thing. I mean, maybe there’s like an odds boost here. That’s not there, whatever. But like, you know, I, I see us as a way to, to stand out and kind of offer a differentiating feature. The other thing that now, you know, sports betting is proliferating throughout the country is cash out, right? So people ask us all the time, like, you know, is cash up competitive? You know, you know, why would I need props off? If there’s cash app, look, you know, sports books, I get cash out.

It’s convenient and sports books don’t even offer it for all the bets, but what they do offer, it’s usually not that great of a price, right? So when you sell your bet via cash out, there’s one potential buyer versus us. There’s thousands of potential buyers. So obviously you’re going to get more money by selling on our site. So, you know, I, I’m not saying we’re instead of cash out, I think it’s just in addition to, right. I say, it’s like selling your car back to the dealership versus selling it privately on Craigslist. Like it makes it a little more time, but you’re going to get more money for it. I’m props a lot.

It’s

Speaker 2 (33m 48s): Also the two way you can participate in the secondary market as a buyer. And you know, this literally answers the, the, the part of the argument where you’re, you’re telling your friend, no, no, no sports betting is just like being an investment banker. We just don’t wear suits. It’s binary. Well, now it’s not binary. So like, in that again, like, and honestly for me, the more interesting angle for something like prop swap is coming in and being able to buy in the secondary

Speaker 0 (34m 13s): Market. Well, and especially in, I was the bid feature, always there. I feel like that’s something I’ve been enjoying it. Yeah. Cause the bid, the bidding angle is definitely pretty sweet and adds another element to it because at correct me if I’m wrong, but I feel like maybe early on when we first signed up or, or whatever, the, the bid wasn’t, there was either he kind of liked their price. They listened to that. Or you didn’t, but bidding adds a whole new element as that been. When did you guys introduce the bidding?

Speaker 4 (34m 45s): Yeah. So, you know, our, our product has evolved a lot. I was the, the current iteration of our website and app launched in October, 2019. And that’s when the, the kind of the, the roast recent bid feature, there’s a, you know, now sellers can set expirations to. Right. So that was a common feedback we have is I look like, I don’t want to forget about taking my ticket down, you know, allow me to set an expiration, you know, and when we first started, the business were like, if we let everyone take it down, we’re going to no tickets up for sale.

That was, that was kind of like in the early days. And so now that we have enough, you know, enough supply and customers, that’s not really a concern. The, the bigger feature is great because, you know, it allows, sellers are scared that they’re going to leave a single penny on the table right there. Like I, you know, so they will purposely kind of listed a little high and be like, look, if some pays that phrase price great. But would, I wouldn’t take less if offer. Right. And so it’s a, it’s a, it’s a great feature for the seller. It allows the buyers to, to get deals that they can’t find anywhere else know.

I don’t know about you guys, but I sell tickets on StubHub sometimes. And I would love if people could submit any bids on StubHub. Right. Like I would, I would love that feature. So yeah, the, the, the bidding is super popular and it will only continue to grow up.

Speaker 0 (35m 59s): No. And, and you mentioned the tickets thing. It is a pain in the ass because you basically have to sell the set, the sell price, and you want it kind of high, or at least close to what you got, but then you have to check in on it and constantly relisted or adjust the price if no one’s buying it, but here now you’ll just, oh, okay. I said it, the big comes in either like the bid or you down, but yeah, no, the bidding, I mean, it just opens it up and it’s a whole other angle and really makes it clear. I mean, really

Speaker 2 (36m 26s): What, what, what, this is the beginning. I don’t want me to give out the, the genius business plan, but like the second week is any form of like true digital integrations of like platforms crossing, whatever it is, crossing states, being able to like join, you know, counter markets, right? Like the Cowboys are playing the giants. Like let’s find a way for giants fans to maybe get a discount on their price in, in, in Texas and vice versa. Like, yeah. We’re probably not that far off from that as the geo fences get broken down like that, that to me, like, that’s going to be the book, just like we see the bulk of bedding today is in game.

Like, I feel like the secondary market is going to be the bulk of transactions.

Speaker 0 (37m 5s): Well, and that, and that’s true too. Cause like probably if you’re betting on a team in a state where that team is, the home team, you’re probably getting the worst price. Like if you try and bet in Pennsylvania on the Eagles, although there, there are some haters out there, but for the most part, you might not be getting the best price where it was again, if you’re betting on them in Dallas, you know, you might get a little, a better price if you’re betting on the Eagle. So no. And, and prop swap kind of, yeah. It’s just, I mean, anything that again makes gambling easier, more fun and honestly just helps.

It helps the bottom line. Like it’s, it’s one of these businesses where, and as soon as you heard, or as soon as I heard about it and I’m like, oh shit, why didn’t I think of that? Like prop swap to me is the classic, oh man, why weren’t, why weren’t we starting this thing? Cause it’s it’s and that’s a, you know, it’s a good business. It’s one of those like, oh man, why was this not here? Which

Speaker 2 (37m 55s): Brings up a good question. You mentioned, you’re the only guys that do this. Like w why, why do you think that is just hard to penetrate the marketplace?

Speaker 4 (38m 5s): Yeah, that’s a, that’s a great question. I mean, originally to start this, I think you had, you had to be in Las Vegas, which I think is probably, which was a, somewhat of a barrier to some people who did not want to come, come to live in Vegas. I mean, I know you guys were just here. A lot of people come here and they’re like, look, two, three days. I’m good. And be out of here. So even

Speaker 0 (38m 22s): If you manage yourself in Vegas.

Speaker 4 (38m 25s): Yeah, seriously. Yeah. I’ve seen, I’ve lived here in Vegas for almost 10 years. I’ve seen, I’ve seen a lot of people come and go one of the last few standing. So I th I think that was one part look, I mean, I think, you know, we’ve, we’ve built a, a significant brand, right? I I’d like to think that when it comes to selling your bet, prop swap is the, is the first thing that comes to mind. So, you know, whether we’ve, we’ve made that, that barrier too high to entry, I’m not, I’m not too sure, but look, I, I, I go through every day expecting that competition will come.

And so I don’t just sit back and say that, you know, we are going to be the, the one and only, but I like to think that we have a pretty good lead. And like I said, what we, our product was, and we started, this is not what it was when you know today. And it’s not, what’s going to be, you know, in a couple of months from now. So we’re going to keep evolving. You know, we, we keep talking to our customers and getting feedback. And so we’re, we’re, we’re going to keep growing.

Speaker 2 (39m 19s): I was going to say it, it does seem like, you know, just based on the fact that you don’t have that, like sports book affiliation, people would immediately see the, this must be better than cash out. Right? Like without even having a conversation when I’ve explained that, like, cause I’ve also been asked that like, is this cash out a good price? And you do some fairly basic math. And it’s like, that’s not really a great price, but it’s better than a binary zero. But once you explain that, like, Hey, you can actually do this other thing.

Like I’ve been explaining to everyone how I’m going to list my giants to win the division at $1 below its payout value, because I’m that confident in the New York giants this year. But yeah, no, like when they hear about it, it’s like, oh wow, this sounds like a much better. It seems like obviously more fair because you’re not dealing with the big, bad Wolf directly,

Speaker 0 (40m 9s): You know? And maybe that’s, maybe that’s part of their strength is they’re not directly affiliated. So people are more, it feels more like a true market

Speaker 2 (40m 17s): Game, but like, it was like, oh, this is the, that’s another person there. This is great. I’m not being swindled well. And

Speaker 0 (40m 25s): You know what? It’s awesome too. Like you mentioned, Derek and we have Derek on the show. The awesome thing about Derek is that he’s a guy who likes betting on sports and kind of has that in mind for his customers. It’s cool to, you know, that the audience gets to know you and sees like, Hey, this is a real guy as a small business going all of our spirit animals also likes getting down on some action. I know you’re, you’re a bears fan. Alrighty. And, and we were, we were just doing earlier on in the podcast, we were throwing out, breaking down some of the quarterback, weak one prop bets, Andy Dalton, minus 500 Justin Fields, plus 300 Nick Foles of course, no shot at 25 to one.

But where are you? Where are you with the Justin Fields era? Do you think he has a shot to start week one? My take was, it seems like Nagy and the bears in general are, are dead set on starting Andy Dalton week one, but that he’s going to be on a short leash. Where are you as a, as a fan, as someone who files the bears.

Speaker 4 (41m 25s): Yeah. I, I think, I think Maya’s 500 Dalton started with one is about fair because I think they’re gonna do everything they can to make it. So that field is not starting week one. I think you’re looking at a situation where Dalton goes a one in three, maybe two and three and the leash gets pulled. So I, I would say I would put the over-under for when fields’ starts his first game at around week six and a half would be my, for when, for when fields start.

So a week one, I think they said they’re gonna do everything they can to, to keep fields, you know, as, as the backup. But it will happen this year. 100%.

Speaker 2 (42m 5s): I think they play the Packers week six, maybe. So they get their ass beat and then

Speaker 4 (42m 10s): Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Right. It’s going to come up, come off a loss for sure.

Speaker 0 (42m 14s): Yeah, it normally does. I’m trying to think of anyone who came off a win Kurt Warner, Eli

Speaker 2 (42m 18s): Manning, I think replaced Kurt Warner off a whim. Oh really?

Speaker 0 (42m 22s): Oh yeah. Cause he was, he wasn’t injured, but he was looking bad there for the giants for awhile random giants trivia. Then he came back out of nowhere again for the Cardinals. That was a great story. Now I know NHL playoffs big for you guys. A lot of people buying and selling the futures lightening got out to a one, nothing lead in the, in the Stanley cup there as have you seen any sort of action? I mean, when we were out in Vegas, I was when it was nights Canadians and we were right behind a lift full of like a Habs fans.

I must’ve come out just for the game and to get down on some action. Are you seeing what’s what are the tickets looking like for the Stanley cup final?

Speaker 4 (43m 0s): Yeah. Yeah. So Montreal has been a crazy story and it’s kind of exactly, you know, what, what props up has made for, because their season has been a roller coaster, right? They were 20 to one kind of early on. Right. They were kind of, one of the top favorites had had a bad second half. And then when they were down three to one, again, this is a situation where like Ryan was saying about, you know, as a buyer, you can pick up great, great deals. Right? So when they were down three to one people with Canadians tickets for literally just unloading them for whatever they could get for lunch, the ham sandwich. Right? So we had a, there was a Canadians ticket that got purchased for $45.

When, when they were done three to one maple Leafs to collect is $10,000. The buyer got 220 to one odds. When the, the best price you could find was one 50 at the book, which, I mean, that’s not a small difference. That’s a huge difference. Right? So, you know, seller’s like, whatever, I’ll take whatever I can get, I spend $45. And then he then had the option to sell it for $3,000 heading into the, heading into game one. He chose not to. I think he’s, he’s gonna play it by year. You know, I think, I think there’s still a chance he’ll sell it, but you know, that’s just one example.

The Canadians had been, had been a great team for us because whenever there’s that kind of volatility in the market, that’s where, you know, sellers are looking to sell and, and buyers can find great deals. Well, and he was

Speaker 2 (44m 20s): Going to say that the Vegas nights backers, hopefully they got off there.

Speaker 0 (44m 25s): I’m sure there’s a lot so fast.

Speaker 4 (44m 27s): Yeah. Yeah. And that’s, and that’s tough, right? I mean, you know, people you selling is not, I think becoming part of more of like the betters toolbox, but it’s difficult to get someone to sell when things are looking good. Right. They only want to sell when things turn bad. So yeah, we, we had some nights people turned to sell, but it was a little, a little, a little too late at that point. And then the lightening, the other thing that’s become extremely popular on our site are these future parlays. Right. So, you know yeah. Like lightening, you know, you know, defending champions, you know, could have been favorite, favorite all year, bending them, not too exciting.

You’re not going to get great odds of them, but you parlay a lightening ticket with something else. And now all of a sudden you’re, you’re, Pat’s huge. Right? So we had a ticket sell where guide got lightening to win the Stanley cup parlayed with the red Sox to win the AAL. He been $81 and sold it for over $700 before game one. So, and now that, yeah, and now that buyer is looking good and, and I think he’s got like a 12 K payout on that ticket, man.

Speaker 0 (45m 28s): That is, that is awesome. And especially in the NBA playoffs, especially this year has been super wild for the future market. I mean, Lakers getting knocked out early in round one and now, I mean the Hawks, no one really saw the Hawks come in and now they’re in the Eastern conference finals and then it was up and down with Brooklyn and then the injuries, what are some of the kind of wild rides you’ve seen in the NBA future was smarter. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (45m 55s): The, the, the sons have been a, a great sense for us. No one really saw that no one really saw that coming. And so that that’s been the most bought and sold team on our site all year throughout the year, Phoenix suns. So that that’s, that’s been, that’s been huge. And then, like you said, the Hawks, we had a guy, he got the Hawks at 175 to one to win the east. He bet a hundred bucks. And he sold that ticket for a little over six GS after game one. So,

Speaker 0 (46m 23s): And that guy’s gotta be feeling great. Cause now, now they’re down to one, as we tape this, he’s like, yep. And then Trey young gets his ankle roll, the little bone bruise, he’s fried, licking his chops.

Speaker 4 (46m 34s): No, he could not find the better. I mean, he, you know, he reached out to us like when they were playing the Knicks, you know, and you know, people do this, they’ll say, you know, everyone’s, everyone is curious about what their bet is worth. Right? So they’ll reach out to us via email, via Twitter, DM, Instagram. And so, you know, if you’re ever curious, we actually have an automatic pricing tool on our website, where if you go to the sell page, you put in the information and then we will give you our suggested price as completely automated. And it’s just a fun way to kind of keep track of, of, of your ticket. So he, he reached out to us and then we were talking during the 76 or series.

And he was like, I think they got a fight and chance. And I’m like, you’re crazy, dude. I had this cash that way. He got it. And then it’d be the 76 years. And then the way to the perfect one game after the win game one and then sold it at the exact right time. And then, you know, meanwhile for the buyer, you know, they got this still that got the bets off best odds in the country, right? So I think the probably, you know, arbitraging or, or hedging some, some Milwaukee position, it was, it was a professional better who, who picked it up, but you know, if the buyer gets the best odds and the seller makes a profit, it’s kind of a win-win.

Speaker 0 (47m 41s): Yeah, no, totally. And it kind of reminds me of crypto, like selling doge coin when it hits 69 cents getting out at the perfect time. And the sell tool is a really good cause I, while Ian was talking, I quickly entered in the giant. So when the division, it said a $0. So they nailed it. You got to check the algorithm. Well, Ian, appreciate you calling in and obviously make sure you check out prop swap.com. Use that promo code SGP and get up to $500 in a deposit and bonus cash.

I mean, it there’s enough value to be had just on the system alone. You throw in that sweet bonus. You can’t beat it and check them out on Twitter as well at prop swap. Ian, appreciate having you on the show, man. Best of luck. All right. Appreciate it. Kramer. That’ll that’ll do it for the podcast. Of course. Stay tuned. Fantasy week is coming next week, top 10 fantasy football positional groups and got a little bonus soccer and NBA coming later in the week, we are putting in double sessions here.

Oh, DA’s never ends two-a-days baby for the sports gambling packets. I’m Sean stacking the money green and he is Ryan. I can’t wait

Speaker 2 (48m 54s): To sell this New York giants to win the NFC east ticket show

Speaker 0 (48m 59s): Kramer, let it dry.


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Speaker 0 (0s): This starting quarterback, prop bets, additional sports gambling podcast is presented by win bet. Get started today and you’ll get a risk free bet up to $500 terms and conditions apply. Get the details@wyandnbet.com and download the app today. Or I’ll submit to you. My prop swap America’s number one app to buy and sell sports bets. Use promo code sup on your first deposit and receive up to $500 in bonus cash. That’s prop swap.com promo code S G P. We’re also writing about underdog fantasy signup and underdog fantasy.com with promo code SGPs and receive a free $25 entry to use in best ball mania too, for a chance to win $1 million.

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Welcome everyone to the sports gambling podcast. I’m Sean stacking that money green with my partner and pics ride real money Kramer, 70 crammed dog,

Speaker 2 (1m 36s): Happy Tuesday, Sean, happy Tuesday. It’s Tuesday, right? It is Tuesday where

Speaker 0 (1m 41s): We’ve been doing a little time shifting. We’ve been pre taping our top 10 fantasy football episodes. So they will be dropping next week while Ryan’s a floating down a river. So enjoy, enjoy cracking, open some cracking, open some cold ones, catching up on some tap, 10 fantasy football. And there’s just, there’s just so much to get to so much action. So much activity on the, on the national football league, including week one, starting quarterback props.

There’s a whole separate, you can bet on that. You can bet on it. Ryan. I don’t know shocking. I mean the advancements

Speaker 2 (2m 19s): In bedding inventory last five years, it’s just tears two. It brings tears to my eyes. You

Speaker 0 (2m 28s): Know, who’s number one in our tier first round first pick overall in bet. That’s right. When bet is the official sports book of the sports gambling podcasts and the sports gambling podcast network, all you got to do to become part of the wind family is just go to w Y N n.com WWI and, and bet.com. Head over there today and get your risk-free bet up to $500. They got it all generous from us. Odds and parlays all happened in right over win bet.com win big with win bet.

Again, the wind win-loss Vegas experience, the action of Las Vegas in the Palm of your hands. Get the app, do yourself a favor. All you got to do is head over to w Y N and bet.com and download the app today.

Speaker 2 (3m 20s): Thursday night football, 72 days away. Just, wow, just going to throw that out there.

Speaker 0 (3m 26s): Thursday night, Brian, it’s not Thursday night football. It’s opening night football for the national football league

Speaker 2 (3m 33s): Primary. You’re still I’m losing

Speaker 0 (3m 35s): It. You are, you’re losing it, but here what’s here. Are we starting with aye? Aye. Aye. Worked up a nice little sheet. Ryan. No reason to get away from this Chicago bears. There are some questions at the quarterback position. Andy Dalton is currently the odds on favorite minus 500 Justin Fields, plus 300 Nick, big Dick foals, a long shot at 25 to one Kramer. I I know and you know, not to spoil it, but in some of these fantasy football podcasts you had some years, you were kind of lower on than I was when it comes to Justin Fields.

You think he’s going to have trouble dethrone in Andy Dalton for that QB one position

Speaker 2 (4m 19s): Are you let’s talk about it. So let’s go. First of all, we were in Vegas at the beautiful circle, not that long ago. And we saw them on the screen. What did we see? Andy Dalton minus one 40. So what is this? And this number is taken from, you know, probably 1:00 PM today. Yup. The number of moving this much, what does it tell you? There’s a pretty high likelihood that someone inside the building with knowledge of the situation is saying that Andy Dalton barring some sort of catastrophic injury injury is going to be the day one starter.

And it’s

Speaker 0 (4m 55s): Not even, I, you know, some insider it’s literally Matt Nagy came out and said, Andy doll, we brought him here. He’s our guy. Yeah, there’ll be a time. Maybe he’s already like leaving the door open. I think overall he gets the quick poll. I think he is on a very, very short leash. Like, you know, I mean, you wouldn’t even call it a leash because it’s just such a tiny piece of rope that he’s hanging on to. And here’s,

Speaker 2 (5m 20s): I guess here’s what I’d say though. More so. I don’t believe in Justin Fields. I don’t believe that he’s going to be the day one starter a because psychologically like it makes sense to let him be the guy that comes in, be the savior. Don’t put the pressure on him from day one. It is Chicago. At the end of the day, they do kind of have a track record for shitty quarterbacks. That being said this, I think this scenario is maybe similar to the 49ers in that there is the ultimate like holy crap.

The other guy is so much better in training camp. We can’t like look at our players with a straight face, say we’re going to start doll those situations. I think the fact that we can get the other scenario time was the Niners, but the Justin Fields at three to one implies that there’s a 25% chance he’s going to get the starting job.

Speaker 0 (6m 11s): Yeah. I, as much as I’m high on fields for fantasy and I think he does start soon. I don’t think it’s, I think it’s like a 10% chance. So I guess my pick is Dalton minus 500. Obviously you shouldn’t bet that at minus 500 it’s horrible odds, but Nagy is leaned so hard into the fact that Andy Dalton is the day one starter. He’s going to be the starter. They’re going to make sure he’s the starter. There, there are other quarterback situations where the dog is much livelier in my, in my point of view,

Speaker 2 (6m 42s): I do think I’m not a field’s guy, but I can, I would very much consume the story that Justin Fields just look so much better than I ended out and then practice. Yeah.

Speaker 0 (6m 54s): So much like, but I still, that being said, I still think that doesn’t, to me it’s not a greater than 25% chance. And I think Nagy has dug his heels in. They said it originally. And then he reiterated it and him reiterating it is what moved it from minus 40 to one 40 to minus 500. So that’s not, I think you’re throwing away money at plus 300. Cause there’s, there’s better plus 300 or plus two twenties out there looking at these starting quarterback, prop bets.

Speaker 2 (7m 25s): I agree with that. I think everything you said is right. And I think that the difference between some of the other scenarios is that, like you said, Andy Don was brought in by this coaching staff for a reason. And I have to meet. Imagine that part of that reason is his ability to be on the field quickly and help develop this guy. So yeah, I guess I’m with you, but minus obviously you should have listened to me at minus one 40 Sean. Yeah. You, you can vouch for the, the advice I was given. You did throw that

Speaker 0 (7m 51s): Out there on fortunately, I don’t know if it made it to a podcast, but I’ll still, I’ll still give you a new England Patriots. Have a interesting quarterback situation. Cam Newton minus 3 0 5 Mack Jones plus 300. And Jared said, I’m rounding out the group at 20 to one. Now for me, the scary about this one is cam Newton and bill Belicheck clearly have a bond. It’s so weird. I don’t understand it. Maybe they both like cigars. Maybe bill Belichick is secretly a white wine guy.

He also, yeah, like

Speaker 2 (8m 25s): It’s probably scarfs scars.

Speaker 0 (8m 28s): They both have a love of silk scarves, whatever it is. He clearly, once cam knew and didn’t even the owner, they kind of want cam Newton to be the guy, whoever bill Bellacheck by all accounts. This is a legit quarterback competition. And if you look most importantly, you look at his contract cam Newton. It is a very free backup, friendly contract. Like you’re not going to feel stupid for putting cam Newton on the bench, especially with this contract. I think Mack Jones is going to be the starter soon on. And to me there’s enough juice enough heat on that pan.

That slowly simmering that I’m gonna, I’m gonna roll the dice here and take Mack Jones is the day one started at plus 300. This is just kind of some of the latest coming out of Patriots, beat writers and stuff. Quote, the 22 year old out of Alabama was fast tracked during the course of OTAs and mandatory mini camp on a number of occasions, getting more reps, then the incumbent cam Newton, and up until the final day of mini camp look better than cam. So I think the fact that he’s getting more reps and he’s looking pretty good.

You want to talk about losing the locker room? I know cam, and again, he has a connection with Belicheck. He has a connection with the locker room, I think. And he may not be the wow factor of a super athletic guy like Justin Fields or Trey Lance. But I think Mack Jones coming in here and he has the ability to command a room. I mean the quarterback of Alabama, you can puff your child. And I think he’s going to be the day one starter. So give me Mack Jones at three to one, I think it’s closer to like a 60, 40, maybe even a 50, 50,

Speaker 2 (10m 8s): This offense so badly has to declare what kind of offense they’re going to be. And I don’t think they’re the same offense if Mack Jones is the quarterback offense in my mind, if can’t no, I’m just saying like stylistically. So I don’t know how they go through training camp, not having decided this ahead of time. And so the, the counter I would say, cause I do think it’s interesting. Cause everything you read is positive towards Mack Jones, but this is also puff time. This is may, this is June. And like you said, bill Bellacheck and I think Josh McDaniels have designed and offense that cam Newton is going to run and it’s going to involve tight ends.

It’s going to involve running the ball and taking occasional shots. The guys on the outside, like Nelson Aguilar. So hunter Henry, I, I think that Mack Jones will be utilized at some point in the season maybe, but in a belt of bill Bellacheck is being the guy, the smart guy that he is the advantage of having a guy like cam Newton is just like run the tires off that like take advantage of his legs. Utilize two tight ends, like do something crazy.

Speaker 0 (11m 17s): Damien Harris look great. So you’re building a great

Speaker 2 (11m 19s): Case. And the last thing I’ll say is with Don being 500 to Justin Fields, 300 cam Newton only being minus 3 0 5, I would say actually feels like a discount because oh, okay. I think at the end of the day, bill Belicheck is going to do what bill Bella check check is going to do. And the fact that he still has cam Newton in the building, he’s saying positive things about cam Newton. It’s again, for the same reason, like you bring them the rookie and later it takes some pressure off of him.

Bill Bella, check’s not an idiot. And they would ha I do believe the you’re maybe you’re going to see packages for him because it’s a different office. And honestly, you know, it will becomes really interesting of Mac Jones does get into being the starter is Meyers number one, rot wide receiver going in like the fourth, 14th round a fantasy. So I can, I hear your argument and I, and I CA I, I agree with you that Mack Jones the better plus 300 bet. Yeah. But I still like the cam Newton side because it, it, you know, don’t overthink it, right?

The NBA, we say the same thing. Don’t overthink it, just follow the tea leaves. And in this case, it’s pointing to cam noon because the beat reporters, aren’t making the

Speaker 0 (12m 35s): Decision. And, and again, maybe they’re like me, they’re letting they watch cam Newton last year they realize cam Newton is not a NFL level quarterback. So they’re there, they’re wanting Mack Jones. They want to see Mac Jones. So maybe that’s leaking into the reporting. I still think at plus 300, I’m rolling the dice here. I just think it’s going to be closer to a true competition. And I like Mack Jones beaten him out again. I just think it’s closer to 50 50 where the Dalton thing I think is like 90 10 for Dalton moving over to the 49ers.

Nate subfield, former Philadelphia Eagle, 40 to one, Josh Rosen, the chosen 1 33 to one Trey. Lance of course. What a room plus two 20 Jimmy G minus two 80. Now, as far as what’s been set out there, Kyle Shanahan has said he has no problem. Starting train lands. I mean, why is this? Why is this still two 20? I mean, he didn’t just show off Trey lanes. He’s dying to show everyone, you know what we, we were right for trading up for Trey.

Lance. When the Eagles traded up for Carson Wentz was there. Did you really think that Sam Bradford was going to be the starter? You don’t take these quarterbacks. Number one, number two, number three overall and not start them day one. You can talk about Patrick moms and they sat him for a year, but that’s not a compare. Jimmy G is not Alex Smith. And he’s been looking he’s, Shannon’s been itching to get rid of Jimmy G for so long. I plus two 20. I think it should be like plus one 50.

Speaker 2 (14m 12s): And as we sit today in Southern California, you know who else is in Southern California? Working out Trey, Lance Deebo, Samuel Ahmanson knew that he, I, again, Carson wants his charity softball game. That was what the anyway, Carson Wentz to Trey lands. Don’t want the pressure gets you.

Speaker 0 (14m 31s): Yeah, that is, I mean, that is just Jay Carson Wentz, just context, ginger Judas. What are you giving advice to a number of top overall pick. Oh, don’t let the pressure get to you. The pressure got to you. What are you talking about the first time? The first time things got tough. You, I guess you didn’t let the pressure get to you just said, ah, fuck it. I’m out of here. I wanna, I wanna hit up the Bible group, but in Indy, like you just immediately bailed on the city, the franchise, the fans, and you’re giving advice. Oh, don’t let the pressure get to you. What have you ever stood up to pressure?

Like what world are you living in, where you stood up to pressure, you caved under pressure, your entire career, and the most pressure you felt was when you played shitty in 2020, and you were heading to foot out the door the entire season. So don’t give Trey Lance advice from one FCS to another don’t point again, I think, I think they’re going to be run heavy. They’re going to have some dynamic offense and kind of to your point with cam, I think they want that offense early and often. I just think he’s going to be the day one starter.

Speaker 2 (15m 33s): Okay. I mean, here’s

Speaker 0 (15m 35s): A, I’m just not land money to get down on Jimmy G as the starter.

Speaker 2 (15m 42s): I think I, I think Kyle Shanahan wants to start Trey Lance. Yeah. So then, I mean, I do, I would like to understand a little bit more about the timeline and like the, the trade up decision to the like, was it all a ruse? Did you realize weird? Did you really not know? Was the not knowing like a real disagreement, but between John a welcome mat, forehead Lynch and Kyle Shanahan,

Speaker 0 (16m 10s): How do you trade up that much draft capital for, can I tell you what? We don’t know the guy? I mean, that just shows if he truly traded up, not knowing he was going to draft, that just shows you how much he hates Jimmy G, that he’s willing to unload all these picks between two guys. He’s not even, didn’t even fall in love with one guy. It’s like, if you’re in a horrible relationship, you just want out, you don’t care who it is.

Speaker 2 (16m 34s): Well, I mean, it’s like the Gruden thing, right? You love them and hate them all. I mean, but I, I, here’s what we’ll be hearing later this season, if things aren’t going well for the 49ers, we’re going to start hearing about a rift between John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan. And it’s going to, we’re going to hear stories, how it dates back to the decision to trade up. And John Lynch and old school guy, he was, he wanted Mac Jones. He thought it was for Mac Jones, Kyle Shanahan tricked him. They ended up going with Trey, Lance.

I do. And that’s maybe

Speaker 0 (17m 7s): That really makes sense because there were legit reports about Mack Jones and there was enough heat coming out about Mack Jones that made me think that it was real. So I think there was, it must’ve been coming from Lynch’s camp if Shanahan truly was in on a entree lands from day one.

Speaker 2 (17m 25s): Well, and, and we, you know, there was, there was talk coming out of the building that there was no Mack Jones talk. It was only Trey. Lance talks to the Mac Jones story was confusing to begin with.

Speaker 0 (17m 35s): And I, I feel like we’re not talking about enough about the fact that the 49ers have traced sermon and Trey Lance in their backfield as that two trays, they need one more tray just so they can just, yeah, that’s pretty good. Or just trace trays. Like, do you need one more tray to balance it out? If there’s another tray in the NFL it’s tray, deuce tray,

Speaker 2 (17m 57s): That’s the formation tray.

Speaker 0 (17m 60s): So Kramer, are you with me on Trey lands? Plus two 20. Sounds like you’re still making a case for Jimmy G.

Speaker 2 (18m 5s): I like if I’m analyzing the coaches and trying to psychoanalyze, like, what are they like, speak to words to action. I believe that naggy starting Dalton. Yep. Because of the pressure valve situation. I believe that bill Bellacheck is starting cam Newton because of the pressure release it, it gives the, the starter. I think, again, these offenses are going to need to look different just like in new England. And I believe that Kyle Shanahan has been sitting alone in his office, twiddling his Dick and writing and drawing up plays with a hyper mobile two way athletic quarterback.

And he’s ready to roll out an offense that maybe it’s a little different. Maybe it’s something new. Maybe it’s just some, some good old fashion, Trey, Trey run pass option. But I there’s just too many versions of the story where once again, like it’s Jimmy G versus Trey Lance, my concern is Jimmy G is great when no defense is out there, Jimmy G look like he he’s good looking. And then he looks good in practice. He looks good throwing the ball. I, my concern with Trey, Lance is his accuracy and all that junk.

So, but yeah, I’m with you on the tray. Lance is the one there’s the dog I’m willing to shoot. Now you should take a shot on, sorry.

Speaker 0 (19m 28s): New Orleans saints. This one to me is, is one of the more obvious ones. And the fact that you can get Jamis Winston at minus two 50, let’s go taste some hill plus 1 75 Ian book. You trust her three to one. Yeah. I mean, is he really might be involved in some crooked stuff, but Jamie’s Swinston at minus two 50 to be the starting quarterback. How do they not? I mean, Jamie’s, I think even if Jamis looked really bad, they would still try them out. Quarterback is his first position. I mean, I get the tastes of the first pick in the draft and really where you could get screwed at this maybe is that taste, some hill runs the first play in the season under center, just to mess with the team mess with the defense.

I can see Sean Payton doing some tricky shit like that. That being said that was Winston minus two 50. First quarterback started all over that. I mean,

Speaker 2 (20m 20s): Ian book might not make the team that he, he was trashed college quarterback, Jamis, Winston.

Speaker 0 (20m 25s): I mean, I would take Nate Seinfeld at 40 to one over Ian book.

Speaker 2 (20m 29s): Jamie’s Winston was the number one pick because he was a big guy with a strong arm. Yeah. And Jamie Swinston had a, a year of years, the 30, 30, 30 year, we haven’t

Speaker 0 (20m 40s): Even seen full Jamis laser eye surgery. He couldn’t see, he had that great throw in the playoff game.

Speaker 2 (20m 46s): He all of his, so most of his, yeah, way downfield. Yes. He held onto the bow. There’s plenty of things he could improve, but he was still slinging the rock down the field. And honestly, like, as I do these best ball drafts and I sit towards the end and it’s like, how is no one taking Jamis Winston yet? This is still the saints. Like what if the saints, you know, God, they, they may, what have they been limited with by the fact that drew Brees can’t throw? So, yeah, I, this is odd that he is the shortest favorite on the board.

Yeah.

Speaker 0 (21m 17s): Jeremy at minus two 50. I’m just following the beat reporters. There’s no, you see him working out, Jason, he’s talking amazing. He’s got these like big guys and then just him getting he’s he’s the, like just the goat of unconventional workouts. Like no one, no one else is doing these workouts that James is doing. Just mark your calendar later or worse, watch the saints games.

Speaker 2 (21m 42s): Because if nothing else, he brings entertaining brand of football. You know, you don’t know what’s going to happen next you’re on the edge of your seat. And who knows, maybe his eyes were the problem. And like, I mean, if there’s a guy that’s coming off the board super down low for MVP, or like leading the passing yards or any of that shit, like, could you see Jamis Winston doing what he did in Tampa? Just without the, you know, maybe 20 less interceptions. Yeah. He could have a monster. He could throw over 5,000.

Speaker 0 (22m 10s): I mean, it’s, it’s crazy. He could have a monster year. That one thing I’m sure of is he’s going to be the day one starter. Yeah. Like the guys started at quarterback, a number of games, days, the mill, we saw him start a couple of games. He didn’t look. So it doesn’t look so good that you’re worried

Speaker 2 (22m 25s): About. Let’s play this game. Sure. All the guys we just listed out. Yeah. You got to pick one to start your team right now. Ooh. It’s Jamis Winston for me, the shortest favorite. That’s a,

Speaker 0 (22m 36s): That’s a great way to handicap starting

Speaker 2 (22m 39s): Over Jamis Winston on this list.

Speaker 0 (22m 42s): I mean, you know, not to litigate it too much, but if you’re talking about starting a team, the fact that Mack Jones and Trey, Lance are rookies and have massive potential one season, a hundred percent James Swinson, are you kidding me? Yeah. I mean, I, I mean, I like what the potential of fields. So especially from a fantasy point of view, but Jamie’s, Swinson’s done it and, and not done it at a high level, but like him just slightly upgrading with Sean Payton in the dome with their defense being decent.

Like, I mean, again, there’s, there’s certainly some, some X factors that could go horribly wrong for him. But at minus two 50 to start, it’s just, I mean, it is a, this is a lock of all

Speaker 2 (23m 26s): Locks. Ryan taste them Hiller cam Newton

Speaker 0 (23m 30s): Taste them hill. Cause I I’ve seen, I’ve seen Jason Hill move a team up and down the field. I mean, people act like I’m some cam Newton hater. I talked to ton of shit on cam Newton coming into the season. Did cam Newton prove me wrong in shape or form. Feel like he almost won that Seattle game. That was always his highlight. Jeez. You see how bad his throws were. They weren’t getting to the receiver. I saw everything happened

Speaker 2 (23m 58s): His arm along the way. I mean, he was getting shit

Speaker 0 (23m 60s): And I don’t know, I’m not a scientist. I don’t know everything about COVID. Maybe it impacts your throwing shoulder, but Hey look, Hey, he didn’t look good. Pre COVID. He looked horrible. He’s not good anymore. I just don’t see why he’d be excited about cam Newton at all. And maybe that’s maybe that’s Taney my analysis of this, a Mack Jones starting, but a plus 300 I’m I’m rolling the dice on Mac Jones.

Speaker 2 (24m 24s): Best of luck. Thank you, Brian.

Speaker 0 (24m 28s): We’re going to be joined by Ian Epstein, a props off. Talk a little futures, talk a little sports gambling value before we do that. Want to make sure we shout out underdog fantasy, man, we’ve we’re knee deep in fantasy talk, been doing a ton of best basketball dress. Got our top 10 fantasy football lists coming out the podcast series next week. Got you covered every position back to front forward, back, reverse cowgirl. All the positions covered and of course, underdog fantasy.com.

Use that promo code SGPs for a free shot at $1 million. That’s right. Sign up using that promo code. You get 25 bucks. You can use it to enter the best ball mania, two contests. It’s one of these giant pest ball drafts. You play out your best ball season and then you’re entered into a tournament. If you make the playoffs. And again, it’s a free shot to win a million dollars, never do another mock draft. Again, just had a word to underdog, fantasy.com and use the promo code S G P N.

Joining us on the line co-founder of prop swap Ian Epstein. And thanks for calling in. Thanks for having me on. Appreciate it. Yeah. You know, it’s great to have prop swap on. I know it’s been fun doing the real men at D Jens and then taking a look at all the props you guys got going on there for people who maybe haven’t heard of prop swap previously. Walk us through the story a little bit a co-founder. When did you come up with the idea? When did you guys

Speaker 3 (26m 0s): First get rolling?

Speaker 4 (26m 3s): Yeah. So for those that don’t know, prop swap is a secondary market for sports bets. So any bet you place at a, at a legal sports book of the U S you could post it for sale for a profit, for a loss. You know, it’s, it’s just a way to hedge your bet or, or, or get out of it if, if you don’t want anymore. You know, we see a lot of guys now who are investing basically now in, in some teams and players with, with the sole purpose of, of looking to sell. Later on, before we start a prop swap the ability to sell your bed did not exist.

And, and it’s still, we are the only company in the world where you can sell your bet to someone else.

Speaker 0 (26m 42s): And, you know, maybe not to get too deep into the legal stuff, but how did that, how did that work? Did you have to deal with a bunch of lawyers of like getting someone to write an opinion that says, Hey, they’re technically just trading this ticket. They’re not, you know, they’re not a Sportsbook, they’re just creating this exchange. Was that, what was that process like?

Speaker 4 (27m 3s): Yeah. We were probably a little naive when we first started out about what, what we actually needed were a little more jaded now and, and a little more educated. So, I mean, we have to rewind back to 2013. I was living in Las Vegas, working for a company called Cantor gaming, which at the time was the largest Sportsbook operator in the country. They ran the books at Venetian cosmos, palms, hard rock of other places. And I, I was a risk manager there. So I was working in the back room, taking the bets, moving the numbers.

So I was kind of the, you know, the sports betting guy. And then my buddy from college, Luke called me up. He was living in San Francisco, but he had come to Vegas during labor day and he made a bet on the saints to win the super bowl at 50 to one. And then fast forward a couple of weeks, they were like, what? Seven in a row. And now they’re on for 15 to one. And so he called me up because he knew I was, I was a sports betting guy and he’s like, Hey, I made this bet. You know, the odds have decreased. Obviously this thing is now worth more than when I made it.

Is there anywhere I could sell this thing? And I said, no, there’s not a, and actually I’ve kind of had that same idea. And he was like, well, you know, I made the bet, but if it wins, can I send it to you? Can you cash it for me? And I was like, yeah, I do that all the time. So then he’s a guy, well, these things are transferable then. And so we, at that point we were literally thought like, okay, we’ll just write a letter to the game and control board ourselves and say, Hey, we want to do this thing. Is this chill? And

Speaker 0 (28m 30s): I just imagine a letter that says, is this chill in the gaming controller check? Yes or no.

Speaker 4 (28m 38s): Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Check. Yes. Or, or check for maybe. And actually I was, I was actually surprised at like how we got a response. I thought, I thought maybe they would just like ignore us. But like, we got a actually really well thought out response from the game control board. Now it wasn’t a great response. They’re like, no, you know, we wouldn’t allow this. And here’s why, and then, you know, we actually like, literally I literally called like the chairman of the game control board at the time he like returned my call. And like we had, you know, it was, they were actually, I was surprised as to like how available they were.

But at the, of the day they were like, look, we, we, we don’t think this is a lot, but we didn’t agree with the reasons. Right? So like for example, they were like, this is messenger betting, right? Messenger betting is like, you know, if Sean calls me and says, Hey, Ian, can you make this bed for me? You know, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll pay you for it. That’s messenger buddy. That’s that’s against

Speaker 0 (29m 28s): It’s illegal, but texting is totally cool. Right. I would text you. I’m just kidding.

Speaker 4 (29m 34s): Pigeon carrier, I think, is that the preferred way? And, and, but, you know, on-prem swap it’s, these are completely anonymous transactions. And like, if, if you know, Sean wanted to have me best in her bed for him, we wouldn’t then go use prof swaps to complete that transaction. Like you, I would, you would just send me the money and I make the bed for him. So like, how is this? Third-party actually contribute to that. So we didn’t agree with their reasons. And so we were like, okay, and be kept kind of like, you know, like kind of hammering them, like, look like, you know, can we, can you check, you know, could we get a meeting?

Will you change your mind? And they were like, I’d love for guy. I called this woman multiple times and you know, she wasn’t on the board. She was just employee. And she was like, what don’t you get about? No, it’s never going to happen. The only way this could possibly happen is if you find a gaming lawyer who will represent, you would have to have a good relationship with the board. They’re like, okay, all right. I guess, I guess we got to go find the gaming lawyer. Then that was the next move. Right? That was next. We tried to find, we talked to a dozen different game lawyers in Nevada and they all told us, I wouldn’t even take your money.

There’s no way this has been like, there’s no way that he would ever lie. It’s like, I, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t even take your money. And then finally, the 13th lawyer we spoke to up in Reno, you know, had never met him in person. Just talk to him on the phone introduction from an introduction. And he was like, Nope, you guys have a case. These tickets are property, no different than a baseball card, a concert ticket. These, this is transferable property, you know, bare papers. What do you call it? And, and he went and represent us to the board. And, and the result of that meeting was that this was not sports betting to be buying and selling these tickets.

So that was 2015. And then we were off to the races.

Speaker 0 (31m 16s): Yeah, that’s a huge win. I mean, if you’ve ever dealt with, you know, we went through these, these processes of getting licensed to be a promoter of legal sports books in, in these states and shout out to all the great states and their great gaming commissions, but it was, it was a very intensive process. And I can only imagine where, you know, we’re just signing up to promote sports books online, but to basically pitch a new concept or a new way to approach gaming and even to get that approved is pretty crazy.

And looking at your model, have you guys been approached by casinos to either do this internally? Because if I was a casino and I saw something like props off, I’m like, why are we not doing this in house? It seems like a great opportunity for the casino itself. Where have you been at, with like partnering up with the casinos and have they, have they come at you for any sort of partnerships? Yeah, that’s,

Speaker 4 (32m 13s): That’s a good question. You know, definitely the, the run, the gamut in terms of how accepting the are, or how good of idea idea they think it is. You know, I, I would like to say that a hundred percent of casinos look at this and say, yeah, this will absolutely boost our handle. People are going to make more bets now that they know they can sell them. But you know, I’ll say Derek Stevens in Vegas has been a super, you know, on the, on the cutting edge. So he’s been, you know, we’ve done the partnerships with, we’re looking to do, it’s a partner, that’s a partnerships Jersey.

And, you know, I mean, as for spending grows, there’s, there’s more and more, you know, casinos and sports books coming online and, and they need a way to stand out, right? Like all these sports books kind of offer the same thing. I mean, maybe there’s like an odds boost here. That’s not there, whatever. But like, you know, I, I see us as a way to, to stand out and kind of offer a differentiating feature. The other thing that now, you know, sports betting is proliferating throughout the country is cash out, right? So people ask us all the time, like, you know, is cash up competitive? You know, you know, why would I need props off? If there’s cash app, look, you know, sports books, I get cash out.

It’s convenient and sports books don’t even offer it for all the bets, but what they do offer, it’s usually not that great of a price, right? So when you sell your bet via cash out, there’s one potential buyer versus us. There’s thousands of potential buyers. So obviously you’re going to get more money by selling on our site. So, you know, I, I’m not saying we’re instead of cash out, I think it’s just in addition to, right. I say, it’s like selling your car back to the dealership versus selling it privately on Craigslist. Like it makes it a little more time, but you’re going to get more money for it. I’m props a lot.

It’s

Speaker 2 (33m 48s): Also the two way you can participate in the secondary market as a buyer. And you know, this literally answers the, the, the part of the argument where you’re, you’re telling your friend, no, no, no sports betting is just like being an investment banker. We just don’t wear suits. It’s binary. Well, now it’s not binary. So like, in that again, like, and honestly for me, the more interesting angle for something like prop swap is coming in and being able to buy in the secondary

Speaker 0 (34m 13s): Market. Well, and especially in, I was the bid feature, always there. I feel like that’s something I’ve been enjoying it. Yeah. Cause the bid, the bidding angle is definitely pretty sweet and adds another element to it because at correct me if I’m wrong, but I feel like maybe early on when we first signed up or, or whatever, the, the bid wasn’t, there was either he kind of liked their price. They listened to that. Or you didn’t, but bidding adds a whole new element as that been. When did you guys introduce the bidding?

Speaker 4 (34m 45s): Yeah. So, you know, our, our product has evolved a lot. I was the, the current iteration of our website and app launched in October, 2019. And that’s when the, the kind of the, the roast recent bid feature, there’s a, you know, now sellers can set expirations to. Right. So that was a common feedback we have is I look like, I don’t want to forget about taking my ticket down, you know, allow me to set an expiration, you know, and when we first started, the business were like, if we let everyone take it down, we’re going to no tickets up for sale.

That was, that was kind of like in the early days. And so now that we have enough, you know, enough supply and customers, that’s not really a concern. The, the bigger feature is great because, you know, it allows, sellers are scared that they’re going to leave a single penny on the table right there. Like I, you know, so they will purposely kind of listed a little high and be like, look, if some pays that phrase price great. But would, I wouldn’t take less if offer. Right. And so it’s a, it’s a, it’s a great feature for the seller. It allows the buyers to, to get deals that they can’t find anywhere else know.

I don’t know about you guys, but I sell tickets on StubHub sometimes. And I would love if people could submit any bids on StubHub. Right. Like I would, I would love that feature. So yeah, the, the, the bidding is super popular and it will only continue to grow up.

Speaker 0 (35m 59s): No. And, and you mentioned the tickets thing. It is a pain in the ass because you basically have to sell the set, the sell price, and you want it kind of high, or at least close to what you got, but then you have to check in on it and constantly relisted or adjust the price if no one’s buying it, but here now you’ll just, oh, okay. I said it, the big comes in either like the bid or you down, but yeah, no, the bidding, I mean, it just opens it up and it’s a whole other angle and really makes it clear. I mean, really

Speaker 2 (36m 26s): What, what, what, this is the beginning. I don’t want me to give out the, the genius business plan, but like the second week is any form of like true digital integrations of like platforms crossing, whatever it is, crossing states, being able to like join, you know, counter markets, right? Like the Cowboys are playing the giants. Like let’s find a way for giants fans to maybe get a discount on their price in, in, in Texas and vice versa. Like, yeah. We’re probably not that far off from that as the geo fences get broken down like that, that to me, like, that’s going to be the book, just like we see the bulk of bedding today is in game.

Like, I feel like the secondary market is going to be the bulk of transactions.

Speaker 0 (37m 5s): Well, and that, and that’s true too. Cause like probably if you’re betting on a team in a state where that team is, the home team, you’re probably getting the worst price. Like if you try and bet in Pennsylvania on the Eagles, although there, there are some haters out there, but for the most part, you might not be getting the best price where it was again, if you’re betting on them in Dallas, you know, you might get a little, a better price if you’re betting on the Eagle. So no. And, and prop swap kind of, yeah. It’s just, I mean, anything that again makes gambling easier, more fun and honestly just helps.

It helps the bottom line. Like it’s, it’s one of these businesses where, and as soon as you heard, or as soon as I heard about it and I’m like, oh shit, why didn’t I think of that? Like prop swap to me is the classic, oh man, why weren’t, why weren’t we starting this thing? Cause it’s it’s and that’s a, you know, it’s a good business. It’s one of those like, oh man, why was this not here? Which

Speaker 2 (37m 55s): Brings up a good question. You mentioned, you’re the only guys that do this. Like w why, why do you think that is just hard to penetrate the marketplace?

Speaker 4 (38m 5s): Yeah, that’s a, that’s a great question. I mean, originally to start this, I think you had, you had to be in Las Vegas, which I think is probably, which was a, somewhat of a barrier to some people who did not want to come, come to live in Vegas. I mean, I know you guys were just here. A lot of people come here and they’re like, look, two, three days. I’m good. And be out of here. So even

Speaker 0 (38m 22s): If you manage yourself in Vegas.

Speaker 4 (38m 25s): Yeah, seriously. Yeah. I’ve seen, I’ve lived here in Vegas for almost 10 years. I’ve seen, I’ve seen a lot of people come and go one of the last few standing. So I th I think that was one part look, I mean, I think, you know, we’ve, we’ve built a, a significant brand, right? I I’d like to think that when it comes to selling your bet, prop swap is the, is the first thing that comes to mind. So, you know, whether we’ve, we’ve made that, that barrier too high to entry, I’m not, I’m not too sure, but look, I, I, I go through every day expecting that competition will come.

And so I don’t just sit back and say that, you know, we are going to be the, the one and only, but I like to think that we have a pretty good lead. And like I said, what we, our product was, and we started, this is not what it was when you know today. And it’s not, what’s going to be, you know, in a couple of months from now. So we’re going to keep evolving. You know, we, we keep talking to our customers and getting feedback. And so we’re, we’re, we’re going to keep growing.

Speaker 2 (39m 19s): I was going to say it, it does seem like, you know, just based on the fact that you don’t have that, like sports book affiliation, people would immediately see the, this must be better than cash out. Right? Like without even having a conversation when I’ve explained that, like, cause I’ve also been asked that like, is this cash out a good price? And you do some fairly basic math. And it’s like, that’s not really a great price, but it’s better than a binary zero. But once you explain that, like, Hey, you can actually do this other thing.

Like I’ve been explaining to everyone how I’m going to list my giants to win the division at $1 below its payout value, because I’m that confident in the New York giants this year. But yeah, no, like when they hear about it, it’s like, oh wow, this sounds like a much better. It seems like obviously more fair because you’re not dealing with the big, bad Wolf directly,

Speaker 0 (40m 9s): You know? And maybe that’s, maybe that’s part of their strength is they’re not directly affiliated. So people are more, it feels more like a true market

Speaker 2 (40m 17s): Game, but like, it was like, oh, this is the, that’s another person there. This is great. I’m not being swindled well. And

Speaker 0 (40m 25s): You know what? It’s awesome too. Like you mentioned, Derek and we have Derek on the show. The awesome thing about Derek is that he’s a guy who likes betting on sports and kind of has that in mind for his customers. It’s cool to, you know, that the audience gets to know you and sees like, Hey, this is a real guy as a small business going all of our spirit animals also likes getting down on some action. I know you’re, you’re a bears fan. Alrighty. And, and we were, we were just doing earlier on in the podcast, we were throwing out, breaking down some of the quarterback, weak one prop bets, Andy Dalton, minus 500 Justin Fields, plus 300 Nick Foles of course, no shot at 25 to one.

But where are you? Where are you with the Justin Fields era? Do you think he has a shot to start week one? My take was, it seems like Nagy and the bears in general are, are dead set on starting Andy Dalton week one, but that he’s going to be on a short leash. Where are you as a, as a fan, as someone who files the bears.

Speaker 4 (41m 25s): Yeah. I, I think, I think Maya’s 500 Dalton started with one is about fair because I think they’re gonna do everything they can to make it. So that field is not starting week one. I think you’re looking at a situation where Dalton goes a one in three, maybe two and three and the leash gets pulled. So I, I would say I would put the over-under for when fields’ starts his first game at around week six and a half would be my, for when, for when fields start.

So a week one, I think they said they’re gonna do everything they can to, to keep fields, you know, as, as the backup. But it will happen this year. 100%.

Speaker 2 (42m 5s): I think they play the Packers week six, maybe. So they get their ass beat and then

Speaker 4 (42m 10s): Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Right. It’s going to come up, come off a loss for sure.

Speaker 0 (42m 14s): Yeah, it normally does. I’m trying to think of anyone who came off a win Kurt Warner, Eli

Speaker 2 (42m 18s): Manning, I think replaced Kurt Warner off a whim. Oh really?

Speaker 0 (42m 22s): Oh yeah. Cause he was, he wasn’t injured, but he was looking bad there for the giants for awhile random giants trivia. Then he came back out of nowhere again for the Cardinals. That was a great story. Now I know NHL playoffs big for you guys. A lot of people buying and selling the futures lightening got out to a one, nothing lead in the, in the Stanley cup there as have you seen any sort of action? I mean, when we were out in Vegas, I was when it was nights Canadians and we were right behind a lift full of like a Habs fans.

I must’ve come out just for the game and to get down on some action. Are you seeing what’s what are the tickets looking like for the Stanley cup final?

Speaker 4 (43m 0s): Yeah. Yeah. So Montreal has been a crazy story and it’s kind of exactly, you know, what, what props up has made for, because their season has been a roller coaster, right? They were 20 to one kind of early on. Right. They were kind of, one of the top favorites had had a bad second half. And then when they were down three to one, again, this is a situation where like Ryan was saying about, you know, as a buyer, you can pick up great, great deals. Right? So when they were down three to one people with Canadians tickets for literally just unloading them for whatever they could get for lunch, the ham sandwich. Right? So we had a, there was a Canadians ticket that got purchased for $45.

When, when they were done three to one maple Leafs to collect is $10,000. The buyer got 220 to one odds. When the, the best price you could find was one 50 at the book, which, I mean, that’s not a small difference. That’s a huge difference. Right? So, you know, seller’s like, whatever, I’ll take whatever I can get, I spend $45. And then he then had the option to sell it for $3,000 heading into the, heading into game one. He chose not to. I think he’s, he’s gonna play it by year. You know, I think, I think there’s still a chance he’ll sell it, but you know, that’s just one example.

The Canadians had been, had been a great team for us because whenever there’s that kind of volatility in the market, that’s where, you know, sellers are looking to sell and, and buyers can find great deals. Well, and he was

Speaker 2 (44m 20s): Going to say that the Vegas nights backers, hopefully they got off there.

Speaker 0 (44m 25s): I’m sure there’s a lot so fast.

Speaker 4 (44m 27s): Yeah. Yeah. And that’s, and that’s tough, right? I mean, you know, people you selling is not, I think becoming part of more of like the betters toolbox, but it’s difficult to get someone to sell when things are looking good. Right. They only want to sell when things turn bad. So yeah, we, we had some nights people turned to sell, but it was a little, a little, a little too late at that point. And then the lightening, the other thing that’s become extremely popular on our site are these future parlays. Right. So, you know yeah. Like lightening, you know, you know, defending champions, you know, could have been favorite, favorite all year, bending them, not too exciting.

You’re not going to get great odds of them, but you parlay a lightening ticket with something else. And now all of a sudden you’re, you’re, Pat’s huge. Right? So we had a ticket sell where guide got lightening to win the Stanley cup parlayed with the red Sox to win the AAL. He been $81 and sold it for over $700 before game one. So, and now that, yeah, and now that buyer is looking good and, and I think he’s got like a 12 K payout on that ticket, man.

Speaker 0 (45m 28s): That is, that is awesome. And especially in the NBA playoffs, especially this year has been super wild for the future market. I mean, Lakers getting knocked out early in round one and now, I mean the Hawks, no one really saw the Hawks come in and now they’re in the Eastern conference finals and then it was up and down with Brooklyn and then the injuries, what are some of the kind of wild rides you’ve seen in the NBA future was smarter. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (45m 55s): The, the, the sons have been a, a great sense for us. No one really saw that no one really saw that coming. And so that that’s been the most bought and sold team on our site all year throughout the year, Phoenix suns. So that that’s, that’s been, that’s been huge. And then, like you said, the Hawks, we had a guy, he got the Hawks at 175 to one to win the east. He bet a hundred bucks. And he sold that ticket for a little over six GS after game one. So,

Speaker 0 (46m 23s): And that guy’s gotta be feeling great. Cause now, now they’re down to one, as we tape this, he’s like, yep. And then Trey young gets his ankle roll, the little bone bruise, he’s fried, licking his chops.

Speaker 4 (46m 34s): No, he could not find the better. I mean, he, you know, he reached out to us like when they were playing the Knicks, you know, and you know, people do this, they’ll say, you know, everyone’s, everyone is curious about what their bet is worth. Right? So they’ll reach out to us via email, via Twitter, DM, Instagram. And so, you know, if you’re ever curious, we actually have an automatic pricing tool on our website, where if you go to the sell page, you put in the information and then we will give you our suggested price as completely automated. And it’s just a fun way to kind of keep track of, of, of your ticket. So he, he reached out to us and then we were talking during the 76 or series.

And he was like, I think they got a fight and chance. And I’m like, you’re crazy, dude. I had this cash that way. He got it. And then it’d be the 76 years. And then the way to the perfect one game after the win game one and then sold it at the exact right time. And then, you know, meanwhile for the buyer, you know, they got this still that got the bets off best odds in the country, right? So I think the probably, you know, arbitraging or, or hedging some, some Milwaukee position, it was, it was a professional better who, who picked it up, but you know, if the buyer gets the best odds and the seller makes a profit, it’s kind of a win-win.

Speaker 0 (47m 41s): Yeah, no, totally. And it kind of reminds me of crypto, like selling doge coin when it hits 69 cents getting out at the perfect time. And the sell tool is a really good cause I, while Ian was talking, I quickly entered in the giant. So when the division, it said a $0. So they nailed it. You got to check the algorithm. Well, Ian, appreciate you calling in and obviously make sure you check out prop swap.com. Use that promo code SGP and get up to $500 in a deposit and bonus cash.

I mean, it there’s enough value to be had just on the system alone. You throw in that sweet bonus. You can’t beat it and check them out on Twitter as well at prop swap. Ian, appreciate having you on the show, man. Best of luck. All right. Appreciate it. Kramer. That’ll that’ll do it for the podcast. Of course. Stay tuned. Fantasy week is coming next week, top 10 fantasy football positional groups and got a little bonus soccer and NBA coming later in the week, we are putting in double sessions here.

Oh, DA’s never ends two-a-days baby for the sports gambling packets. I’m Sean stacking the money green and he is Ryan. I can’t wait

Speaker 2 (48m 54s): To sell this New York giants to win the NFC east ticket show

Speaker 0 (48m 59s): Kramer, let it dry.

The Sports Gambling Podcast has been giving out lead pipe locks in the world of sports since 2011. Created by Philadelphia native Sean Green (@SeanTGreen) and New Jersey's own Ryan Kramer (@KramerCentric). SUBSCRIBE ON APPLE | SPOTIFY | GOOGLE | SOUNDCLOUD

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